Vladimir Putin is taking part
in the fourth international forum The Arctic: Territory
of Dialogue.
March
30, 2017
15:40
At the Arctic: Territory of Dialogue international forum.
The forum’s theme this year is
People and the Arctic. The participants are discussing ways
to improve the quality of life in the Arctic, maintain
its unique environmental potential, boost sustainable socioeconomic development
of the Arctic regions and strengthen international cooperation
for these purposes.
* * *
<…>
President of Russia Vladimir
Putin: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, Mr Niinisto, Mr
Johannesson,
I wholeheartedly welcome all
of you to Russia, to Arkhangelsk.
It is the second time that
Arkhangelsk is hosting The Arctic: Territory of Dialogue
international forum. This is symbolic, because Arkhangelsk is closely connected
with the events and individuals that have opened the polar
latitudes to the world.
We will mark one of such “polar”
events this year. I am referring to the 85th anniversary
of the famous Otto Schmidt expedition, which for the first
time covered the route from the port of Arkhangelsk
to the Pacific Ocean within one navigation season, launching regular
navigation along the coast of Siberia, the legendary Northern
Sea Route.
The importance
of the Arctic has increased manifold. The attention of many
nations is focused on the Arctic as a region whose
wellbeing determines the global climate, a treasure trove
of unique nature and, of course, a region with a huge
economic potential and opportunities.
Preserving the Arctic
as a territory of constructive dialogue, development
and equal cooperation is a matter of fundamental importance.
This forum, whose theme this year is People and the Arctic, has
a great role to play in this.
The forum has brought together
respected academics, business leaders and politicians and has become
a venue for serious professional discussions of the current
situation and the future of the Arctic, as we hoped it
would. The forum is important for promoting different forms
of Arctic partnership. Your expert views and initiatives are also
taken into account at the Arctic Council, which has over
the past 20 years served as an example of effective
international cooperation that continues unabated by external change.
Russia, which accounts
for approximately a third of the Arctic zone, is aware
of its special responsibility for this territory. We aim
to ensure its sustainable development, create a modern
infrastructure, develop natural resources, strengthen the industrial
potential, improve the quality of life for the indigenous
Northern people, maintain their unique culture and traditions
and provide government assistance towards these goals.
However, these goals must not be
viewed separately from the task of preserving the biological
diversity and the fragile ecosystems of the Arctic. It is
gratifying that the protection of the Arctic environment is
a key priority of international cooperation in this region,
including research cooperation. I would like to remind you
of one more important date in Arctic history: the 80th
anniversary of the Soviet drifting ice station North Pole. Its
traditions have been taken up by the Russian drift station Barneo,
which is home to researchers from around the world.
Academic cooperation
and the exchange of experience and programmes are extremely
important, considering the large-scale plans for the development
of this region, particularly within large international projects.
A recent positive example is the Yamal LNG project, which is being
implemented by seven countries.
Russia believes that there is no
potential for conflict in the Arctic. International law clearly
specifies the rights of littoral and other states
and provides a firm foundation for cooperation
in addressing various issues, including such sensitive ones
as the delimitation of the continental shelf
in the Arctic Ocean and the prevention of unregulated
high seas fishing in the Central Arctic Ocean, which is surrounded
by the exclusive economic zones of the United States,
Canada, Denmark, Norway and Russia.
I would like to reiterate
that Russia is open to constructive cooperation and does its utmost
to create a proper environment for its effective development. We
have drafted a fairly extensive economic programme
for the Arctic designed for many years to come. It already
includes over 150 projects with investments estimated at trillions
of rubles. First, we will support the initiatives that have
a multiplier effect for the Arctic regions and our country
in general, including public-private partnerships and what is known
as core development areas, which we treat not just as territories,
but primarily as a set of coordinated and complementary
projects, as well as state support tools.
These and many other activities
will be included in the revised state programme
for the development of the Russian Arctic.
In particular, it deals with forming a block of modern research
and technological solutions designed specifically for the harsh
Arctic conditions, improving the environmental monitoring system
and developing offshore deposits. We pay special attention
to the Northern Sea Route, which I mentioned earlier
in my remarks.
Changes in the ice
situation and the availability of new up-to-date vessels makes
it an almost year-round artery, at least, it will become one
in the near future. It will be an effective and reliable
transport corridor with great potential for the Russian
and global economies. I have already instructed the Government
to work through the issues of creating a separate entity,
which will be in charge of the integrated development
of the Northern Sea Route and contiguous core areas, including infrastructure,
hydrography, security, management, and all associated services.
We invite our foreign colleagues
to make active use of the opportunities offered
by the Northern Sea Route, which will cut transportation costs
and delivery time for goods between Europe and Asia. However, we
are well aware that for that corridor to be competitive, all-purpose,
and usable by carriers of all types of goods ranging from
bulk cargo to containerised freight, transport companies must enjoy
the most favourable terms that meet the latest international
standards.
In closing, I would like
to thank all the participants for their participation
in the constructive discussion of the Arctic issues,
and their passion with regard to its future.
Special thanks go
to my colleagues – the President of Finland
and the President of Iceland – who took the time out
of their busy schedules and attended today's forum in person.
Such a broad and authoritative international representation is
a good sign of the political will of the Arctic and other
states to preserve the Arctic as a territory of peace,
stability and mutually beneficial cooperation.
Thank you.
<…>
President of Finland Sauli
Niinisto: President Putin, President Johannesson, your excellencies,
ladies and gentlemen,
It is a great pleasure
to attend this distinguished forum again. I want to thank
the Russian Government and the Russian Geographical Society
for convening this forum. It is very fitting that we meet here
in Arkhangelsk, the historical meeting place between East
and West. I approach the event in this spirit, promoting
a meeting of minds with a firm belief that the Arctic will
indeed remain a territory of dialogue.
My starting point today is
the growing threat of climate change. Tackling this challenge is
crucial if we want to ensure that the Arctic remains the place
it is today. But the issue is of global significance. If we lose
the Arctic, we lose the whole world.
Global warming is
a well-documented fact. Last year was the warmest year ever
in the history of monitoring the Earth’s temperature
and already the third record warm year in a row. No one can
escape the effects of global warming. At the moment,
the problem is most acute in the North. The former UN
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has called the Arctic “ground zero”
for climate change. The average temperature has risen twice
as fast in the Arctic as in most other regions.
The summer ice cover reached an all-time low in 2016
and recent reports indicate that this winter has not fully rectified
the situation.
A further concern is
the recent report made by Russian scientists that in Siberia
there are some 7,000 methane-filled pockets waiting to release their
content. This will create danger and disruption to infrastructure
and humans in the area. What is worse, once released, methane is
a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.
Eventually, a warming climate
will cause major challenges to everyone on this planet.
In the Arctic, residents are facing immediate consequences that will
fundamentally impact their communities and traditional livelihoods. Food
security is threatened and new health concerns are emerging.
Make no mistake, this catastrophe
will not be limited to the Arctic. There will be enormous
consequences worldwide. As the ice melts, sea levels will rise.
As the ice melts, solar radiation will not be reflected back. Instead,
its energy will further warm the water and accelerate global warming.
Climate change is also a major
security issue. It is a threat multiplier that aggravates many issues
behind conflicts. Famine, water scarcity, flooding, forced displacement
and so forth.
So, what needs to be done?
Firstly, a major step
in the right direction was the conclusion and early
ratification of the Paris Agreement on climate change. But
the most important part, effective implementation, lies still ahead
of us.
Secondly, we need intensified
cooperation across borders to combat the challenges
and to strengthen the resilience of Arctic residents.
Thirdly, in order to be
effective, Arctic cooperation must have a global dimension. A case
in point is the impact of black carbon on climate,
the environment and human health. The sources of black
carbon are known, technology and know-how to deal with
the issues exist. It is time we dealt effectively with it. One source
of black carbon is flaring, that is, burning excess gas
at a production site. For a layman, that is almost
impossible to understand. In 2015, flaring amounted to almost
150 billion cubic metres of wasted gas. To put this
in a perspective, this is almost forty times more than how much
natural gas Finland uses annually. This amounts to burning money.
On top of this, flaring accounts for a quarter
of the climate warming in the Arctic.
Fourthly, we must ensure that
the Arctic remains an area of cooperation. The strategic
importance of the Arctic is growing. The geopolitical tensions
in other parts of the world should not be allowed to spill
over the Arctic. Cool heads are now needed to keep the Arctic
an area of low tensions also in the future. The good
news is that the Arctic has remained peaceful and Arctic cooperation
works very well. There is a strong culture of cooperation
and a vibrant system of Arctic governance.
The Arctic is also a place
where international law is pre-eminent. The maritime boundaries
and ownership of underwater minerals, oil and gas will be
determined by international law. The Arctic coastal countries have
jointly declared that they will follow the UN Convention
on the Law of the Sea. The maritime delimitation
agreement between Norway and Russia in 2010 set an encouraging
example that everybody should follow.
Finally, we must ensure that
the mechanism we already have reaches its full potential. Beginning
in May, Finland will chair the Arctic Council for two years. Our
chairmanship slogan will be “Exploring common solutions.” We want to highlight
the need for constructive cooperation between the Arctic
stakeholders. Also, we believe it is time to take Arctic cooperation
to a new level. Finland proposes the convening
of an Arctic summit to discuss a wide range of issues
pertaining to the region and beyond. This would provide
an opportunity to ensure that the Arctic, indeed, remains
a territory of dialogue. It is our common responsibility to see
that this promise and tradition is upheld here, in the North.
Thank you.
<…>
President of Iceland Gudni
Johannesson: President Vladimir Putin, President Sauli Niinisto,
excellencies, dear guests,
I thank the organisers
for the opportunity to speak at this important conference.
I also thank you, President Putin, for your interest in Arctic
issues, and for showing continued commitment in promoting
international cooperation in the region.
For Iceland, the Arctic
plays an important role. We have worked with other Arctic nations
in the Arctic council, and other forums. In recent years,
we have also drawn attention to the region through the annual
Arctic Circle Conference in Reykjavik, under the leadership
of my predecessor, Olafur Ragnur Grimsson.
Allow me also to add
my appreciation for being here in Arkhangelsk. When
I studied history in my youth, I became fascinated
by Russian and Soviet history, and the Russian language.
Unfortunately, I was only able to study Russian for one year.
But the admiration remains to this day. Back home in Iceland,
I gained the friendship of Russians living there. Hospitality
and honesty – these are the words I would use
to describe those friends. And as the Russian saying goes:
nothing is as precious as true friendship. (InRussian.) Нет ничего дороже на этой земле,
чем настоящая дружба. (Applause.) Спасибо.
We Icelanders share parts of our
history and heritage with the peoples of Russia and other
countries in this part of Europe. Our old sagas contain tales
of Viking travel to eastern lands, to Novgorod and Kiev,
and other sites. In our more recent past, development in this
part of the world have of course influenced our society.
In Iceland, people fondly remember how the rulers in Moscow
sided with us in disputes about fishing limits in the mid-20th
century. Later, when we extended the line even further, there were
objections from the Soviet side, it is true. But the general history
of fishing disputes, and the development of the Law
of the Sea demonstrates how international disagreements
and conflicts can and should be solved through dialogue and negotiations.
Thus, the United Nations Law
of the Sea Convention has already proven its worth. Yet there is
still work to be done. Throughout the 20th century,
fisheries were the backbone of Iceland’s economy. Although we have
diversified our economy, and enjoy a boom in the tourist
industry, we still depend on marine resources. The ocean is vitally
important to us. In fact, it is vitally important to all
humankind. Therefore, I want to draw your attention to some
risks and opportunities in this field.
For centuries, humans have used
the ocean as a rubbish dump. A few weeks ago, a man
who used to work at the president’s residence in Iceland
told me how they used to clean the garbage there in the old
days. We would put it all in a container, which we then took
to the shore and emptied it into the sea. Problem solved.
Fortunately, such methods are no longer used in Iceland. But bigger issues
confront us.
Today, more than 8 million tonnes
of plastics are dumped into the ocean each year, and volume is
fast increasing. Unless we act, by 2050, there might be more plastic waste
than fish in the sea. And, dear friends, we will not survive
on plastic fish, no matter how we will advance and progress
in the future.
The plastic threat is clear
and present. Ocean acidification is another problem facing us. It is
invisible, but equally worrying. The most immediate harm is done
to animals such as snails and crabs. Other animals, including
marine mammals, will also be hard hit.
In the Kiruna Declaration
of 2013, the Eighth Ministerial Meeting of the Arctic
Council highlighted this concern. Since then, the situation has only
deteriorated. Maybe we need another declaration. But let us also recall another
Russian proverb (in Russian.): Дела звучат громче слов. Actions speak louder than words.
The third issue we need
to address concern increased sea traffic in the Arctic Ocean.
Oil- and nuclear energy-driven vessels always carry with them
the risk of serious pollution. Cruisers carry tourists, who will need
search and rescue facilities if danger strikes. Yes, we do have
the 2013 Agreement on Cooperation on Marine Oil Pollution,
Preparedness and Response. But we must continue to be on our
guard, be prepared for all eventualities.
Finally, let me mention
the changing behaviour of pelagic fish stocks, such as mackerel
and herring. They swim where they want to. They do not respect borders.
Therefore, we believe that it is of fundamental importance
for the Arctic nations to reach agreements on how
to share these migratory fish stocks. And such agreements need
to be based on scientific foundations regarding the stock sizes
and yield of each species.
In this regard, we welcome
the ongoing discussions on how to manage future fisheries
in the Central Arctic Ocean. Never before have international
negotiations on fisheries taken place before the fish were actually
there. We are proud to participate in this undertaking. A good
example of how to conduct business in the Arctic.
Dear friends, I now move from
the ocean to dry land. This conference has highlighted the many
opportunities and challenges that confront people in the Arctic
region. It is easy to be spellbound by the stunning beauty
in the north, and the ways of life that have changed
relatively little throughout the centuries.
Still, nature is not only beautiful
here, it is also harsh. We need to work together to improve
the living conditions of people in the countries
of the high north. President Putin actually touched upon this
in his opening speech here, and last week, His Excellency also
addressed the International Forum and 8th Congress of Small
Indigenous Peoples of Siberia and the Russian Far East, making
the following observation: “It is essential to develop a constructive
and mutually beneficial dialogue with the local authorities
and influential public organisations, take into account people’s opinions
and act in their interests.” Let this be the guiding light
in our mutual efforts.
Economic activities must not only be
sustainable and harmless to the ecosystem; they should also
benefit the local populations, with improved infrastructure, healthcare,
school system, communications and other aspects of modern society.
And actually, I believe this was also a subject touched upon
by President Niinisto.
And here,
in the north, as elsewhere, social problems should be faced, not
ignored. We need to combat such ills as substance misuse. Here
as elsewhere, young and old, male and female should have
the right to security in their homes be free from all kinds
of violence.
Dear conference guests, Iceland’s
Arctic policy is based on a parliamentary resolution approved
unanimously in March 2011, six years ago. Its aim is to secure
Icelandic interests with regard to the effects of climate
change, environmental issues, natural resources, navigation and social
development, as well as strengthening relations and cooperation
with other states and stakeholders on the issues facing
the region. The resolution refers to the importance
of international law, especially the need to resolve any
differences on Arctic issues on the basis
of the United Nations Convention on the Law
of the Sea.
Dear listeners, President Putin
and President Niinisto. In a few weeks, Finland will take over
the chairmanship of the Arctic Council. In two years’ time,
Iceland assumes that role, and then Russia will follow, from 2021–2023. We
should work closely together, ensure good continuity and common long-term
objectives in the Council’s work.
The Arctic region is changing
fast. We face environmental changes, and changes in people’s living
conditions. Let our impact be positive. Let our Arctic dialogue deliver
results. Thank you very much.
<…>
Vladimir Putin: Finland is our
very good neighbour and it has very good experience in organising
such important events. The Helsinki process, as you know, began
in Helsinki, where very important documents were signed. In this
respect, I believe Finland is a very appropriate country
and Helsinki is a very appropriate venue for such events.
However, the President
of Finland has just said that such events should be well prepared,
and prepared by both sides. If this happens, we will be pleased
to participate and I will be pleased to take part
in such an event. If not, then such a meeting can take place
within the framework of our usual meetings of this kind, like
the G-20, I think.
Vladimir Putin: No, nothing is
likely to change our priorities in this region. There are several
factors here. First, even now, companies operating in this region account
for 10 percent of Russia’s GDP and their share is constantly
growing.
Among the essential
circumstances are the growing changes and greater efficiency
of new technologies. Today we received the first tanker
in the newly built port of Sabetta. It is an absolutely new
port that was built from scratch in the Arctic zone,
in an empty space, so to speak. Until very recently, it would
have been impossible to do this with such quality. The ship that
entered this port today is all about modern technology. It breaks through ice
up to two metres thick like an icebreaker. This is all about new
technologies.
The second essential factor that
bolsters optimism on our part is climate change. Now President Niinisto
spoke about this, and he spoke very convincingly. The period
of navigation along the Northern Sean Route has been significantly
expanding recently. This goes to show that transport capabilities are
improving.
As you may know, yesterday,
I visited an extreme northern region, Franz Josef Land, 900 kilometres
from the North Pole. Our specialists, our scientists there told me that
they are observing the constant melting of the ice
and glaciers, and the President of Finland also spoke about
this.
This shows that climate change
provides more favourable conditions for economic activity in this
region. If these trends continue, we can see what will happen. Today, 1.4
million tonnes of goods are shipped along the Northern Sea Route.
By 2035, this will be 30 million tonnes. This is growth for you.
As part of Yamal SPG, one
of our major projects (which is further evidence that such programmes can
be carried out in these latitudes), an absolutely unique new plant
has been built. It is nearing completion. In the old days, it was
even hard to imagine such things, but it will be up and running
by the end of the year. It is as good
as finished. It will produce 16.5 million tonnes of liquefied natural
gas. The volume of shipments via the Northern Sea Route will immediately
quadruple. Importantly, it can work in two directions: towards both Europe
and Asia.
All of this goes to show
that our plans to develop this region are absolutely viable.
Geoff Cutmore: President Niinistö, to bring
you in on that issue, I think what we hear is that there’s going
to be more shipping, more fishing, all of that potentially with
environmental consequences. Be specific for me: how do we prevent
the downside, but get the upside?
Sauli Niinistö: Well, that is a complicated
question. But first of all, it’s very evident that the warming
of the Arctic area will continue, in spite of the fact
even if we meet all the Paris agreement criteria. That’s a fact.
Now, we tend to think very easily that
environment and business are against each other. We should find a way
of combining that. And I tried to tell that we have even
paradoxical phenomena, like black carbon, like flaring. If we could get rid
of those which have nothing to do with business, we will not harm any
businesses. That would already help quite a lot.
So, to find a thinking where we can,
in a reasonable way, have all the possibilities that
the Arctic area gives, through resources, and also through fishing,
and at the same time, try to at least cut down all
such behaviours which are useless and only cause damages. I think
that is the first step we should take going forward.
Geoff Cutmore: Can I bring you in, President
Johannesson? Iceland in particular, I think, has been very focused
on marine conservation. Again, just to repeat the question
and give the opportunity to answer, how do we achieve
the economic benefits that President Putin has described,
and the rolling out of significant projects, without damaging
the biodiversity?
Gudni Johannesson: Again, you ask wide-ranging
questions, and that is all the better.
In my speech, I did mention that we
used to treat the oceans as a dump, a rubbish dump. We
also thought that there was always enough fish in the sea, that we
could just continue fishing endlessly, and would not have to worry
about the consequences. The last century told us that this is no
longer the case. Increased catch efforts will lead
to the delimitation of stocks, and ultimately, their total
downfall. So everybody agrees that we need to cooperate for our
common benefit. Then, as history shows, we disagree on who gets what
and how we delimit this wealth of ours. And that’s why it is so
important to take part in a dialogue like this, in Arctic
dialogue. And the way forward there is through negotiations,
and ultimately, compromises.
All of us have mentioned global warming
and its effects on the Arctic. And one visible effect is,
of course, that the ice is melting, thus changing the behaviour
of fish stocks. The increased temperature in the sea also
means that fish species that used to go southwards instead
of northwards are moving up here. And this leads
to the question: should we just take it as it comes,
or should we try to be proactive? And that is why it is so
important what we have been doing to negotiate and discuss
and find ways to delimit or divide the stocks before they
are actually there. And I think that should be our guiding light.
Geoff Cutmore: President Putin, does it then seem
odd or challenging at this stage that we now have an American
administration that has appointed as the head of the EPA
apparently somebody who doesn’t believe in the scientific judgement
of how climate change happens. There is no American on the stage
here. But how do we address this difficulty when the current US
administration appears to be embracing policies that will only increase
the ice melt and probably heat up the north even faster?
Vladimir Putin: First of all, thank God,
there are Americans here. I can see
Ambassador Tefft. Welcome.
Second, you know, what I am going to say now
may not be very popular, but I believe President Niinistö said they will
comply with all the Paris agreements. Russia is also determined to do
so, just as we complied with the Kyoto Protocol.
However, as Sauli [Niinistö] said, [global]
warming will continue all the same, and this is definitely
the case.
What is the question? Look,
as I already said, yesterday I visited Franz Josef Land. There
was an Austrian researcher working there, Mr Pyer. Then he left. He
described the glaciers there, among other things. About 20 years later,
the future king of Italy went there and took some photos
and showed them to Mr Pyer. The latter had a photographic
memory. In addition, he had drawn maps, the maps of glaciers,
and he discovered that during those 20 years the number
of glaciers had declined.
In other words, warming had already begun. There
were no such man-made factors, such emissions, at that time, but warming
had already begun. The question is not how to prevent it.
I agree with those who believe that the question is not how to prevent
it, because this is impossible. This may have to do with some global
cycles on earth or even some planetary cycles.
The question is how to adapt to it. Mr
Johannesson spoke about the distribution of fish, where they go,
where they appear. Research is necessary. The question is how do mankind
and people who live in this region adapt to it.
So the proposals and positions of those
who disagree with their opponents, including – I do not even know
the name of the gentleman that you referred to… they are not so
silly after all. What did he lead in America? May God give him wellbeing
and success, but we should all listen to and hear each other,
and only then can optimal solutions to these problems be found,
and of course they exist.
Geoff Cutmore: Well, Mr President, his name is
Scott Pruitt, and he is getting a lot of media coverage
at the moment. And you have said that Russia will abide
by the Paris accords, but does it not concern you that we don’t hear
the same commitment from Washington?
<…>
Geoff Cutmore: President Niinistö, given
the comments you’ve made, maybe I could ask you the same
question. Are you disappointed at this stage that we don’t have
a very clear commitment from Washington on the Paris accords?
Sauli Niinistö: Actually, I do agree
a lot with what Vladimir said. It’s now very important that we continue
discussions and try to, first, understand each other, and then, try
to find compromises or solutions. I wouldn’t describe
the situation yet as a disaster, with the Paris Agreement.
I’ll take one example, and I’ll come back once
again to black carbon. It is due to incomplete burning of fossil
materials. How could we get rid of that? It needs investments
to renew those plants. And that might very well be a common
task: first, to make very close studies, and then, try to build
up together. It’s a problem – it’s a problem in Russia, but
it’s a problem in the United States and Canada, wherever,
probably also in Finland. And if we could find some common means how
to invest to renew those plants, that would be a route forward
with no damage – it doesn’t hurt anybody’s economic thinking, but it
benefits us all.
Something like this, I think, might be
a good start to find the common points of view,
and maybe, going forward, even with the Paris Agreement.
Vladimir Putin: I think
I will permit myself to respond to what Mr Niinistö has said
about soot emissions. It will be the third time I will be referring
to my yesterday’s trip to the islands, where we inspected
glacier ice. This glacier formed hundreds or even thousands or millions
of years ago. In one of its layers, we saw soot sediments –
you will see it, too, if you go there. This sediment is thousands of years
old, it was deposited at a time when there were no plants emitting soot
into the atmosphere.
I would like to tell you
that several Etna eruptions do more damage than the humankind’s current
emissions. We need to carefully analyse this information.
Geoff Cutmore: So let me just
follow up and come back to you. How do you make sure that
the economic projects that you’ve talked about that will be rolled out
over the coming years – how do you ensure that those have minimal
environmental impact?
Vladimir Putin: I would
like to comment on what my colleague, the President
of Iceland, has said about working with the researchers. What
guarantees can there be? Only an insurance policy can provide
a guarantee, while we must work to find a technological solution
and take responsible decisions at the government level.
Russia has a targeted government
programme on Arctic development that is focused on preserving
biological diversity and protecting the environment, nature
and the interests of the indigenous people. We simply need
to use modern technology not just to produce mineral resources but
also to protect the environment.
I have spoken here about
a project we are implementing jointly with seven other countries, Yamal
LNG. It aims to produce 16.5 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas
a year. Of these seven countries, two are shareholders of the company
that is implementing the project, and several other countries are
helping us with project management, technology and equipment. Their
technology allows us to implement the project without any emissions
or wastes, because everything is put to use or removed
to the mainland and eliminated in an eco-friendly
manner. If we use only such technologies, nothing will threaten the world.
Geoff Cutmore: Clearly what is
coming through very obviously is that there needs to be dialogue,
and there needs to be continued communication with all parties who
are on the Arctic Council. But we know that we are actually
at a very low point in relations between Russia and many
Western countries, and part of that is to do with Ukraine
and Crimea. But I don’t want to go over that territory here.
What I do want to say, though, or I’d rather like to ask
the question, President Putin, is: how do we build confidence from here
when we are at such a low ebb in international relations?
Because it seems to me that it’s difficult to get cooperation
on issues like the Arctic if in America today, even
as we’re speaking, there is a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing
as to whether Russia has used disinformation to affect
the outcome of the last presidential election.
Vladimir Putin: I knew it
would end this way. (Laughter in the hall, applause) Seeing
the positive spirit of this discussion on Arctic issues,
I really would not like to see this platform taken over
by Russian-American bilateral issues, but out of respect
for you, Geoff, and out of respect for your company, CNBC,
which no doubt gave you this instruction, I’ve simply no choice but to go
along.
First of all, thank you
for the fact that in raising this issue, when you spoke
of the problem with Ukraine and Crimea, you made
a distinction between Ukraine and Crimea. This is right.
Now,
as for the substance of your question, we have said before,
and I stress again now, that we know and are certain that,
as public opinion surveys show, Russia has many friends
in the United States.
I want to say first
of all that we consider and treat the United States
as a great power, with which we want to develop good partnership
relations. Everything else is lies, fabrications and provocation
in Russia’s regard.
This is all being put to use
in the domestic US agenda. What do I mean by this?
Particular political forces inside the USA are playing
the anti-Russian card in their own interests, in order
to bolster and cement their own positions at home.
I mentioned before that
the US Ambassador is present here today. He has come to this forum
and can meet here with all participants, with Government members,
and with representatives of Russia’s big companies. We do not hinder
these contacts, but on the contrary, facilitate and encourage
them.
But our ambassador
in the United States finds his contacts restricted. Any meeting he
has is met with criticism and seen as an act of espionage
of some kind. What kind of absurdity is this? What is
an ambassador’s job if not to meet and maintain contacts with
members of the political elite, businesspeople, members
of Congress and the Senate, members of the Government
and Administration? Why else do we have ambassadors? This is normal diplomatic
practice around the world.
People are raising questions about
the meetings our businesspeople and bankers have. But US
businesspeople come here and meet with people here, including Russian
Government members. How else are they supposed to go about their work?
Of course there are contacts.
I do not think it is
in the American people’s interests to take to absurd levels
this situation in our bilateral relations just for the sake
of the internal political agenda of the moment. Do we want
to break off our relations completely? They are practically at zero
as it is, with bilateral trade down to around only $20 billion. Our
trade was at $27 billion, which is pitifully low for two countries
such as ours, and now it is down to $20 billion. Do we want
to break off our diplomatic relations entirely and go back
to the 1960s, to the time of the Cuban missile
crisis? And where do we go from there?
These people who take this
irresponsible line, where are they leading us all, including the American
people? I think this is a big mistake, and I certainly hope
that at some point, and the sooner the better, this
situation will return to normal.
Now, regarding Ukraine, we know that
in the USA and some other places, some hold the view that
the worse the relations between Russia and Ukraine,
the better it is for them, because it weakens Russia and hampers
whichever integration processes that would strengthen Russia, including
economically. They would rather see Russia too busy with issues on its
borders with its neighbours to be able to stick its nose into
international issues such as Syria, the Middle East and others.
They think this is to their benefit.
This is a mistake. No one
benefits from this because if we attempt to restrain whichever country
through whatever means, including such dangerous means as regional conflicts,
this could lead to disasters on a global scale, even
to global conflict. On the contrary, we must strive
to resolve all conflicts, and I hope that our American partners
will take this road of cooperation. Let me say again that the sooner
we resolve these problems, the better.
Regarding the Arctic region, we
work together with our American partners in the Arctic Council.
As you know, the USA currently heads the council. We worked
together with the USA at the expert level to draft
a decision that will be adopted soon, in Alaska, I think this is
planned. This decision concerns use of joint scientific research
in the Arctic region, and I think this is very important.
Strange as it might sound
in today’s climate, but we continue our bilateral cooperation on border
matters. For example, Russian and US citizens living along
the Bering Strait coasts can travel back and forth without visas. Our
visa-free regime in this region continues, fortunately. This is
a great help to the people living in these areas
and means they can maintain contact with the friends
and relatives on both sides. This is an excellent base
for developing such cooperation in the future.
Finally, there are concrete regional
issues in which the USA and Russia both have an interest
and want to see resolved. In the Bering Strait region
again, for example, shipping has increased rapidly and the USA
and Russia therefore both have an interest in ensuring safe
shipping in this region. We also need to take action to preserve
polar bear populations, for example, and, as the President
of Iceland said, organise fishing, catch and use
of bio-resources, and so on. This is all in our common
interests.
This is not to mention
the tremendous opportunities we have in developing production
of hydrocarbons and other minerals in the Arctic. We have
excellent examples here and are working together with ExxonMobil,
as you know, and with other partners on developing this region.
This offers huge opportunities for Russia, for the United
States, and for the entire world.
I hope very much that we will
arrive at this two-way street and will improve our bilateral
relations for the good of both peoples
and of the entire world.
Geoff Cutmore: So, Mr President,
I just want to be very clear about this. You,
and the Russian Government never tried to influence
the outcome of the US presidential election, and there will
be no evidence found.
Vladimir Putin: I think it
was [Ronald] Reagan who once said, on the subject of tax, “Read
my lips: No”. (Applause)
Geoff Cutmore: So I know
President Niinistö is very keen to get in, and I’ll let him come in,
but I just want to ask one more question before I move
on from this, and please forgive me for this, but I think
it’s very important for the international audience to see you
answer these questions. So let me just follow up here.
We have seen a very prominent
businessman, Oleg Deripaska, offer himself up to the committee,
because he feels that things have been said about him that are wrong
and inappropriate. I know it would be unprecedented, but would there
be any way in which the Russian Government would be prepared
to make available people to appear on that committee,
or those committees, just to clear up this business?
Vladimir Putin: Look, we hear
all these endless and groundless accusations of whatever
intervention, and talk about cybersecurity. You know that we long since
proposed to draft, together with the Americans, a joint
agreement, a joint document – an intergovernmental agreement
on cybersecurity. We proposed this, but the Americans refused. Why?
Perhaps because it is more convenient for them to be able
to accuse us depending on the needs of their domestic
political agenda?
As for speeches, whether
in the [US] Congress or in the Russian Duma,
I know for a fact that we have simply informed our deputies
and have repeatedly appealed to Congress and the Senate,
inviting them to come to Moscow, or offering to come
to Washington, in order to meet, explain, and discuss
openly the key issues in our bilateral relations
and on the international agenda. But we have had no response.
We made two or three such
proposals. Just recently, we made another such proposal, but still no answer.
If some Russian businessperson goes there and speaks in Congress,
fine, it is his right to speak where he pleases, and we have nothing
against this. We had a businessman planning to go, and, as far
as I know, he was blocked from entering the United States,
on what grounds, I do not know. No one has given any explanation. Let
them tell us why. Let him go to the USA and address Congress.
If the law enforcement
and intelligence services have genuine grounds for refusing him
entry, based on evidence, we would at least understand
the motivations for the decision. Anything can happen. Business
is a complicated thing and all kinds of violations are possible,
but we do not know the situation in this case. If there are charges
against him, let them make them known.
I think this would be
a good signal and good practice. Let me repeat that we are ready
to welcome members of Congress or the Senate here
in Moscow, and we would certainly be happy to see our many
American friends from the business world too, who want to work
and continue to work in Russia. Welcome. We will help them.
Geoff Cutmore: President
Niinistö.
Sauli Niinistö: Yes, I’ll go
back to a couple of minutes ago, when you described that
tensions are growing worldwide. I do not actually agree with you totally.
Because what we have seen, specifically in Europe, is that the need
for dialogue has been widely confessed. And I see now very many
of my European Union colleagues visiting Moscow, even our neighbour,
the Foreign Minister of Sweden, met her counterpart in Moscow.
The dialogue is increasing, and that’s not tension, that’s getting
rid of tensions. We have this kind of very positive development going
on in Warsaw. The NATO countries had a meeting last summer,
and every member underlined the importance of dialogue with
Russia.
But there is a question,
and that is the question dealing with relations between
the United States and Russia. We don’t know, actually,
at the moment, how it will develop. And surely, it’s
a matter for Russia and the United States going forward.
But it is of huge interest also in countries like Finland what is
going to happen.
I remember even the years
of the Cold War. We are not close to those, but nevertheless, we
understood then that Washington and Moscow somehow knew each other. They
didn’t agree, but they had quite a clear picture of what
the other one is thinking. And this is even a positive thing,
even if you don’t agree. And now we are waiting [to see] how this
relationship is going to develop. And we wish for the best.
But back again
to the Arctic and the Arctic Summit…
Geoff Cutmore: Well
I think, personally, that these things are all connected
to the Arctic, to be quite honest with you.
Sauli Niinistö: If we are really
feeling that there are tensions, what would be a better surrounding than
a cool Arctic to solve those tensions? Everybody stays cool.
Geoff Cutmore: President
Johannesson, you want to come in.
Vladimir Putin: We should better
listen to what the ‘hot-headed Finnish guys’ have to say. (Laughter,
applause)
Gudni Johannesson: Iceland is
also very cool. And Finland, for that matter.
I think it would be hard
to find seated next to each other presidents of countries more
dissimilar in size and power. Russia, the greatest landmass
on Earth; Iceland, a small island in the North Atlantic –
we don’t even have a military – we have a better soccer team
though. Sorry.
Vladimir Putin: Need help? (Laughter,
applause)
Gudni Johannesson: Sometimes
being small can help you. I do not want to belittle
the seriousness of the issue, the accusations. We had
a presidential election in Iceland as well, and nobody has
ever asked us about outside interference of any kind. We, however, survive
as an independent, sovereign state, because respect
for international law has grown in the 20th century
and the beginning of the 21st. We need
to hold onto that. We need to hold onto the respect
for international law, international treaties. And we were talking
about the Paris Agreement, and if I’m not mistaken, even
a company like ExxonMobil actually would encourage the US
administration to maintain adherence to the Paris Agreement.
So, respect for international
law, respect for international treaties, and also, like
the President of Finland mentioned: trust. You knew where
the other player was as during the Cold War. And President
Putin mentioned a favourite remark of Reagan, but do you remember
another remark of Ronald Reagan during the Cold War years? It was
a Russian saying: “Trust, but verify.” Доверяй, но проверяй. And that was his
favourite saying. We need to build that trust again. We, the smaller
nations of the world, cannot influence the world stage, but we
can possibly assist, and ultimately, it is in our own interests that
the greater powers at least get along. So a symposium like this,
where we meet and discuss, is all the better for us,
and therefore, we participate.
Geoff Cutmore: Thank you very
much. The warmth coming off you three is going to melt the ice
outside, I think. But I’m not going to let you get off the hook
quite so easily, and let me come back to this. You are a NATO
member, your security, in a sense, is ensured by NATO,
and America is a key participant in that organisation,
and Finland of course has been a high-profile attendee at NATO
events for many years. When US Defence Secretary James Mattis took up his
position, he described what he saw as Russian moves
in the Arctic as “aggressive steps.” Now how is this helpful
in deescalating the tension, President Putin?
Vladimir Putin: What do you
mean? Our aggressive behaviour?
Geoff Cutmore: It’s a quote
from James Mattis, the US Defence Secretary, as he took up his
position. And he pointed to what he saw as an upgrading
of bases in Russia’s Arctic North, and of course,
the introduction of new military technology in the region.
And I think that’s why he made those comments. But I’m quoting
verbatim from what he said. So this is not me making this up.It’s a quote
from James Mattis, the US Defence Secretary, as he took up his
position. And he pointed to what he saw as an upgrading
of bases in Russia’s Arctic North, and of course,
the introduction of new military technology in the region.
And I think that’s why he made those comments. But I’m quoting
verbatim from what he said. So this is not me making this up.
Vladimir Putin: Look, this
border and military activity we are developing is taking place
on Russia’s own territory. We take the view that we are acting no
differently to any other country here. The United States, which is
our neighbour in the Arctic, is also developing its military
activity. We think its military activity does represent a threat
to us, because what we are doing is local in nature, but what they
are doing in Alaska is global in scale. They are developing this
whole missile defence system. This system is one of the biggest
security problems in the world today. It is not a purely
defensive system, but is a part of nuclear capability, established
at the periphery. It is not about preventing missile and nuclear
strikes, but is about minimising a possible counterstrike. These are
the things that are postulates today, and the experts understand
this perfectly well.
The United States is developing
its infrastructure, developing new technology, and has withdrawn
unilaterally from the ABM Treaty, which I think was
the cornerstone guaranteeing strategic stability. The USA withdrew
from this treaty and is now actively developing this infrastructure.
What we are doing
on the islands and the coast, for example, is local
in nature, and, as I said, is about rebuilding infrastructure
that was also used to ensure safe shipping in this region. We must
work together to prevent any illegal economic use
of the Arctic’s mineral and biological resources. Together, we
need to combat all kinds of smuggling and piracy. We all know
about piracy in southern seas, but this kind of thing happens
in other parts of the world too, and we must act
to prevent any negative development of events.
We are not developing a military
infrastructure alone, but, as I said yesterday, we are building
an infrastructure that is dual and even triple purpose
in nature. Our Emergency Situations Ministry will use this infrastructure,
for example, along with the services responsible for preventing
or minimising the consequences of possible oil spills
in this environmentally fragile region. This infrastructure will also be
used by our scientists studying the Arctic,
and the meteorological services will use it too.
We are developing
a comprehensive infrastructure, including the military component.
I think that this is the right direction to take. Furthermore,
we are completely open in this respect and we invite others
to join us in this work, including our American partners.
Geoff Cutmore: Unfortunately,
the shared military exercises that used to take place
in the Arctic have now stopped. Again, to get back cooperation,
how do we get to that point? Given the difficult relationship
and the sanctions.
Vladimir Putin: During
my visit to Finland last year, President Niinistö expressed his
country’s concern over Russian aircraft flying over the Baltic Sea with
their transponders off. Transponder is a device that informs the air
traffic controller that there is a plane in the air, just
a plane, or, in this case, a military aircraft. I promised
the Finnish President that Russia would urge all countries that are
engaged in military activity in the Baltic region to make
it obligatory for their pilots to use transponders.
Technically, this is not
a simple task, because Russia and the NATO countries use
different types of transponders. Hence, additional steps must be taken
for these devices to work effectively and for their signals
to be received by air traffic radars. We said that we were willing
to do this and held a meeting on this issue in Brussels.
But the reply was: “No, the NATO countries won’t do this.” Why not?
Ask them. The problem is the same in this case too.
I cannot understand why this
happens. First, NATO’s air activity is much higher, several times higher than
ours. If we look at the number of aircraft – Russian
and NATO ones – flying over the Baltic Sea, we will see that
their activity is several times higher. And yet some people claim that we
are behaving aggressively. This is hypocrisy, a tall tale
for the media. But experts take not of this; they are aware of the problem.
The same is true about
the Arctic. We are not going to fight or compete with
the United States in the Arctic. Everyone knows that US defence
spending is higher than the defence budgets of all other countries
in the world taken together. If you pile up together the defence
budgets of all countries in the world, the United States’
spending will still make a bigger pile. This year again, it has decided
to increase US defence spending by $40 or $60 billion.
Despite this, Russia
and the United States are the world’s largest nuclear powers.
They have a special responsibility for global security
to the planet and the international community.
And the sooner we develop military cooperation, the better it
will be. By the way, our cooperation on some sensitive issues,
such as cooperation in Syria, is improving and growing deeper
and broader, despite any public statements. We feel our American partners’
interest in developing our interaction, which is a good sign. We hope
that it will also spread to other parts of the world, including
the Arctic.
Geoff Cutmore: Did you want
to come in, President Niinistö?
Sauli Niinistö: Why not? First
of all, I will go to Baltic Sea air space and transponders.
First of all, Vladimir,
I did not say that only Russians are flying without transponders.
I said to you last summer that there are planes flying without
transponders. How I saw that question is – it’s a minor step
surely: one piece of globe, just the Baltic Sea air space, just
a question of transponders, technical equipment. But it might be
a small step to build up co-understanding. And I thank you,
Vladimir, for supporting and pushing forward. I know that you
have done a great job in Russia in developing technically your
place.
But I don’t see that we have
actually missed the case because I remember in Munich, that was
a couple of months ago at the Security Conference, both
Foreign Minister Lavrov whom I see there and Secretary-General
Stoltenberg were very positive on that initiative. And now this group
of experts, civil experts inside the ICAO that are studying
the case and they have promised to take up also transponders
in their discussion, and that is a military question.
So we have not closed the case
but I think that the most important, like I said, it is
a small step. But if you can take a small step that is
an indication that you can make even bigger step someday. And that is
the whole idea.
Geoff Cutmore: And I think,
to President Putin’s point about the cooperation that is taking place
in Syria, with forces very close to each other. It is clear that
there is operationally a requirement for both American
and Russian forces to talk to each other. And President
Trump believes he is going to launch a new campaign against ISIS. He
talks about wiping them off the face of the Earth. Would this be
something that you would, if President Trump reaches out to you, is this
something where you could find common ground and work together early on?
Vladimir Putin: We certainly have
a shared priority. That is the fight against international terrorism.
President Trump is quite right to set this task. We will certainly support
this work. In my address to the United Nations on its
70th anniversary in New York, I said that we cannot
combat terrorism effectively unless we join efforts. This is not a problem
that exists in some isolated place – it is a global problem.
As the King of Saudi Arabia said to me one day, Islamic
countries are the first victims of terrorism. That is true. Terrorism
emerged long ago, many hundreds of years ago. It has upsurges now
and then, and now we are seeing one of such upsurges. That is
extremely dangerous. We see it in the tragic events the world
over: Europe is affected by it and the United States has
suffered global disasters – I mean September 11. Russia is also
an object of continuous terrorist attacks.
However, if we at least try
to use these forces to achieve some political ends, we will never be
able to strangle it. I don’t say “vanquish” but at least
to minimise, choke it. The fact that President Trump has set this
goal certainly inspires us to team efforts. We firmly count
on eventual transition to such constructive cooperation.
Geoff Cutmore: And could
I ask, is this something that you will reflect to Mr Tillerson when
he goes to Moscow? I believe he will be in Moscow sometime
before you meet with President Trump?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, the fight
against terrorism is certainly among the key items on our agenda. If
Mr Tillerson visits us – I have met him on several occasions,
two or three times – we will certainly discuss this issue among
others. However, I must tell you, and you know it better than
I do, that to make this job efficient we need interaction not only
with the Department of State but also with the CIA
and the Pentagon. We will not achieve any positive results without
constructive teamwork with our colleagues in these fields.
Geoff Cutmore: So I want
to wrap up this area of sovereignty and security just
by addressing Russia’s claims in the Arctic because, as we
know, there are some competing claims for the same area. Russia’s
claim to territory in the Arctic Ocean beyond 200 marine miles
continues, it seems, to be a source of low-level conflict
and discussion. How do we resolve that, President Putin,
to everybody’s satisfaction?
Vladimir Putin: First, you
cannot please everyone. A compromise entails mutual concessions, when
the parties defer to each other. Here is a good example: after
years of talks with Norway, we came to an agreement
on the division of the Barents Sea in 2008
or 2010, if memory serves, and we marked the state border
in a way that suited both Russia and Norway.
My colleague
on my left, Mr Johannesson, has said that his country does not have
an army, that it is a small country. Norway is not a big country
either, compared to Russia, and their armies cannot be compared
to each other, but we never did and never will build our relations
on the might is right principle. We believe that the settlement
of disputes must be based on justice and international law. We
have done this in our relations with Norway. I am confident that if
we respect this principle we will also come to an agreement with
Denmark and the other Arctic nations.
Geoff Cutmore: President
Johannesson, please come in on that because it seems that this is
still a thorny issue. And, as President Putin says, maybe not
everybody will be satisfied. Are you ready to be dissatisfied?
Gudni Johannesson: No. But we
live in a world of options and you do not always get what
you want. And we have done well in the Arctic region within
the Arctic Council. We have had satisfactory methods to resolve
disputes. True, we disagree, especially when it comes to catches.
And there are issues. Not as we speak, but there have been
in the past two weeks meetings between Russian and Icelandic
officials where there are disagreements. But if we approach the problem
in a non-provocative manner and respect the opponent’s view
and, furthermore, believe in scientific evidence. We have discussed many
things today here. Global warming. We’ve come from the Arctic
to Syria, to the US, even stopped by in Iceland
and Finland.
One thing that should concern us is,
I dare say, the decreased respect for scientific results. People
will just say: this is your view, this is my view. Whereas if we lose
the respect for obvious facts then we are in trouble.
And we have done okay when it comes to fisheries’ research
and fishing delimitation. We have heard scientists on both sides
of the table who will say, yes, these are the undeniable facts.
And if we do not agree on how to divide the catch then both
of us will lose. So in this spirit, I am confident that we can
move on forward. So this is the guiding principle for us. And,
as President Putin pointed out so correctly, we would be in deep
trouble if the size of armies mattered at the negotiating
table.
Geoff Cutmore: Let us move
on and talk about how we see the Arctic developing from here.
And I am aware as I look out into the audience
in this venue, there are people from many countries that are not involved
in the Arctic Council. There is a large representation here from
China. China has talked about its own near-Arctic position and its
interests in the Arctic.
President Putin, how would you see
some of these non-Arctic countries being involved in some
of the projects that you have talked about here? Is it purely about
putting in investment or do you see them having a larger role?
Vladimir Putin: We have
the Law of the Sea, an agreement on the Arctic
and the Arctic Council of the eight Arctic countries,
and we also coordinate common approaches with non-Arctic states.
We believe that all countries have
the right to work in this region. We only need
to coordinate our work there and reach agreements on this.
I have mentioned the Yamal LNG project. In addition to its
shareholders, which include Russian, French and Chinese companies (there
are two Chinese companies involved), equipment for this project is being
supplied by Korean, Japanese and several other companies from seven
countries. The two Chinese companies will be involved in production.
US ExxonMobil, working together with Russia’s Rosneft, has discovered one
of the largest Arctic deposits, Pobeda (Victory). Indian companies
are involved in hydrocarbons production in the Extreme North,
which is also an Arctic region. We are using their services.
Our Chinese partners want
to take part and are discussing their contribution to building
railway lines towards deep-sea ports in Russia’s northern regions. You
know, we will not prevent non-Arctic countries from helping us develop
the Arctic. Moreover, we are interested in using their resources
and capability for this provided they respect the standards
and rules of environmental safety, the safety of biological
resources and the interests of the indigenous people living
in this region. This is something we can and will coordinate.
In fact, we are already working to coordinate this cooperation.
Geoff Cutmore: Can I bring
you in on this? Because it raises some other questions about, again,
what we were discussing earlier, that you bring in many nations
in on a commercial basis. Does it come more difficult
to control the development?
Sauli Niinistö: Well, today
I already said that the Arctic issue is a global issue from
the environmental point of view. So I would say that there is
or at least there should be a huge interest worldwide
in how the Arctic is going forward. What is the environmental impact?
We are all sitting in the same boat in that question globally.
But surely there are specific
interests. Vladimir talked about those. Let us take the Northeast Passage
which, by the way, was found originally by a Finn. But
nevertheless, surely, that would shorten up the way from Asia to Europe
a lot. Then, there is an idea of an information cable.
Maybe that goes forward. That is of interest to everybody. But
somehow I see the Finnish position a bit similar to some
of those countries you described outside the Arctic. Because
unfortunately, we have no possibilities to be disappointed with
the sharing of the resources in the Barents Sea
because we have no demands. We have no right to demand. So in that
position we are a bit similar to those co-operators than many others.
Surely, we are a member but nevertheless, I very well understand
the global interest in the Arctic.
Geoff Cutmore: But as you
take over the chair of the Arctic Council, is the Arctic
Council the correct forum for adjudicating between
the non-Arctic member states’ claims? Because it cannot be
a free-for-all, can it? There has to be some restriction.
Sauli Niinistö: But non-Arctic
countries do not have such claims as those countries which have
a border with the Barents Sea. So the position is different. But
there are a lot of observers and I think that we hear their
opinion very well through that channel too.
Geoff Cutmore: President
Johannesson.
Gudni Johannesson: Well,
of course, increased cooperation is in general
for the better. We have here, as was mentioned, representatives
from China, Singapore, from various countries who have an interest,
naturally, in the Arctic as a region
and as a potential for utilisation and sustainable
development.
We, nations of the Arctic,
also benefit from a meeting like this. Myself and the delegation
from Iceland, we have had discussions with people at this nice university
here in Arkhangelsk, have fought out loud about ways to exchange
students, academics, having summer courses, winter courses, etc. We also met
with the Governor of this region and spoke about potential
business opportunities, also with the Governor of Murmansk where we
already have a footing. We already have Icelandic companies operating
there.
Now, I am not going
to mention sanctions, but, you know, this is the way forward
to foster ties because it is a common interest to work together,
which is a benefit to both sides or even all sides. So that is the benefit
of a meeting like this and I think the description The Arctic:
The Territory of Dialogue says it all. We will have our
differences, serious differences. The larger the nations
of the Earth, the bigger the differences, I should
think. But if we do not meet up and if we do not have a constructive
dialogue, the situation will not improve.
So therefore, it is a pleasure
and honour for somebody representing a small country like
Iceland and Finland, I should think as well, to be able
to participate. Because if we just stayed home and ignored
the whole thing then we would at least not move forward.
Geoff Cutmore: President Putin,
you can now blame PresidentJohannesson for my question
on sanctions since he brought it up.
Gudni Johannesson: It was bound
to happen. But you’ve never asked me about the Reykjavik summit
though. You asked my colleague, President Niinistö about a summit
in Helsinki, but not Reykjavik.
Geoff Cutmore: Well, you know
Slovenia is also bidding to host the first meeting between President
Trump and President Putin, so why notReykjavik? I am sure President
Putin would be happy to travel there as well. It seems to me you
are reaching out on this platform actually to President Trump and his
office to organise a meeting soon.
Vladimir Putin: What can I say?
I have already said that we are ready for meetings; we need
to discuss the parameters, the content of these meetings.
This largely depends on the American side. We can see what's
happening there. I just do not want to go into this. You see, you
keep dragging me into your squabbles. We can see what is happening.
The newly elected President is being hampered and prevented from
implementing most issues on his election agenda such as healthcare,
other issues, international affairs and relations with Russia.
We are simply waiting
for the situation to recover and stabilise, without
interfering in any way. And it seems to me,
by the way, that this is the best evidence that we never ever
did so. I hope it will end sometime. We will decide where we will meet,
what we will discuss, these are mere technicalities.
There are many questions that are
long overdue, including the economy, security and regional conflicts.
We are ready for this discussion. But it is necessary
for the other side to show goodwill and readiness
to work constructively.
Geoff Cutmore: You have said
on many occasions at many platforms that I have been involved
in that non-interference is your principle. But this week we have heard
not only Washington but also the EU in Brussels saying that you
should release protesters, you should release the leader
of the opposition. They have been making calls upon you.
The fact that there is an apparent interference from them, will that
have consequences?
Vladimir Putin: All these calls come
amid police crackdowns such as for example on Paris protesters
against the murder of one of the citizens directly
in his home, a Frenchman of Chinese descent. Therefore, this
kind of appeals to Russia – we believe these are politicised
moves aimed at influencing the domestic political life in our
country.
As for our internal
political developments, we consistently support anti-corruption efforts, since
corruption is indeed a serious problem for us (although declining
somewhat in recent years, judging by opinion polls, among other
things), and for other countries. This is relevant, and we are
working on it, and people can see it. I personally support
keeping anti-corruption issues constantly in the focus of public
attention, and always take a positive view when people take note
of these issues. The only thing that I think is wrong is
for certain political forces to try to use this in their
own interests, for self-promotion in the political arena ahead
of political events such as elections rather than to improve
the situation.
We know perfectly well,
and I would like to draw your attention to this: this tool
was also used at the beginning of the so-called Arab
spring. We also know that this led to the bloody events in the region.
We know that this was one of the motivations and reasons
for the coup d'état in Ukraine, our neighbour. We also know that
these events have plunged Ukraine into chaos.
Therefore, we say yes
to the fight against corruption – and no to using this
tool for narrow and selfish political purposes. Everyone involved
in political processes should act within the framework
of the law. Anyone who breaks the law must be punished
in accordance with Russian legislation.
Geoff Cutmore: One
of my viewers actually sent a question in for this
discussion. An American. And he said, if you take further
consequences against the Americans over sanctions, would you stop giving
them rockets so that they can get to the space station?
Vladimir Putin: We never use
the “get a ticket and off you go” principle. And why should
we? We never take any steps that can harm us. Americans have long been buying
our rocket engines. It is advantageous to them as it saves money,
including taxpayers’ money that should have gone to build their own
facilities, but it is also advantageous for us because it keeps our
factories working.
We never make steps that damage
business, damage our international relations. And we are not going
to do anything of the kind here. What the previous US
administration did, I think, hurts the US economy, the American
people. And as the Obama administration urged the Europeans
to take the same measures, it hurts the European economy,
bringing down the competitiveness of the European economy, leading
to hundreds of thousands of lost jobs, and it has already
led to the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs.
It violates the principles
of the World Trade Organisation and international rules
in this area, and these are crude violations both
in the economy and in human rights protection.
We keep talking about human rights,
incessantly, including with regard to the rallies in Moscow
and other Russian cities. Yet they just imposed sanctions
in connection with the Crimean events on individuals who had
nothing to do with the events, they never even had the slightest
idea of what was being planned, and they learnt of what was
happening from the media. Yet sanctions were just imposed on them.
Where are the human rights here? Their bank accounts were closed, they
cannot even use funds for making transactions for their family
members and so on. Well, what are we talking about? What human rights are
we talking about?
It means they should be observed
in one place, and shouldn’t in another. There is no logic, no
equal approach to these issues in the modern world. Unfortunately,
we have arrived at such a degradation of international law
and international relations. It should be rectified. Can this be done
or not? It can, and let us strive to do it together. But this
can only be done from both the sides.
Geoff Cutmore: Mr President,
I think at the beginning you said what we need is an open
and constructive cooperation. And I think we have had
a plenty of open and constructive dialogue here.
And I want to finish
on a positive note because I think the conversation has had
many positive notes, and very quickly because I am being told that we
need to wrap up now.
Maybe if I could just ask each
of you to give me one perhaps thing that you hope we can achieve
before we meet again at this event. One thing that would take us forward in terms
of that cooperative dialogue on the Arctic.
President Johannesson.
Gudni Johannesson: An agreement
to continue in the vein that the Arctic Council has worked
so far for twenty years or so, that we base our agreements
and conclusions on the Arctic, on scientific evidence with
full respect for the opinions, wishes and needs of all
those concerned, leading to constructive, reliable and viable
compromises.
Geoff Cutmore: President
Niinistö.
Sauli Niinistö: Well,
I would like to see all of us and other members
of the Arctic Council sitting at the table
to at least understand profoundly what the other one is saying.
That is the minimum and I already got that we do not know
at the moment exactly what kind of relations, for example,
the biggest members or participants of the Arctic Council
have. That would be a way forward. First you have to know what each
of us thinks. And then you have a possibility maybe
of finding solutions.
Geoff Cutmore: President Putin.
Vladimir Putin: I can only join
in with what my colleagues, President Johannesson and President
Niinistö, have said. This is the right approach because
the aspiration to build positive relations is the motto
of the Arctic Council and of this forum. As we say,
the Arctic is a space for cooperation and dialogue,
and I would like very much the example of positive teamwork
in this part of the world to spread elsewhere where we
could address our problems using the experience of our cooperation
in the Arctic.
As for the Arctic, we
certainly see Russia’s future in it, as well as the future
of the global economy. It possesses huge untouched reserves
of natural resources, and it is at the crossroads
of many international interests. If we find the tools of tackling
our problems here, it will inspire us to address problems in other
parts of the world by similar means.
In conclusion, I would like
to thank my colleagues, as I said
in the beginning, for having found the time in their
schedule to come to Russia. I would also like to thank you
as moderator. You have moved us, so to say, to discuss problems
outside the Arctic region. As a matter of fact, this is
what makes such discussions topical and very interesting.
Thank you very much.
Geoff Cutmore: Let us thank our
presidents. Thank you.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
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